Ray Wenderlich of C3 Software notified us this morning that their app AppVault Pro has been removed from the App Store by Apple at request of AllAboutApps, who developed AppBox Pro. This is a very similar case to the removal of Stoneloops by Mumbo Jumbo, the developer of Luxor. AppBox Pro claims that AppVault Pro infringed upon their copyright, and complained to Apple. With no word to the developer, Apple removed AppVault Pro last night.
Here is the text of the original complaint: The AppVault Pro V1.1 and AppVault Lite V1.1 infringed copyright of the AppBox Pro and AppBox Lite. The AppVault Pro/Lite application is available since Jan 4, 2010. They have just same graphics, layouts and features with different color for Ruler, Level, Battery, Tip Calc, Periodic Calc, and more in the AppBox Pro. Comparing the home screen of the AppVault Lite and the AppBox Lite, we know where their ideas comes from and how they made it. It is apparently infringing the copyright of the AppBox Pro and the AppBox Lite.
According to Ray Wenderlich on his company’s blog, “Although we pointed out that his demands were not grounded in copyright law and even worked with him to address some of his issues, about a week later Apple pulled us from the store without even talking to us first or providing a reason.”
Having used both apps this is quite an odd occurrence to say the least. I have reviewed AppBox Pro, and was currently in the process of reviewing AppVault Pro. Of course the apps were similar they’re app collections, but to say AppVault is infringing a copyright seems an exaggeration to say the least.
When the developer of AppVault originally contacted us for a review, they stated that they saw our review of AppBox Pro, and noticed in the bad section that the apps were inferior to stand alone products. They believed that they provide a higher quality of each app in their collection to compete with stand alone apps, and not just AppBox Pro.
In writing up my review I completely agreed, as most of the apps are extremely deluxe providing more content and quality than similar AppBox Pro apps, and were definitely solid competition for stand alone apps.
In total AppBox Pro contains 18 apps plus some webapp links. AppVault Pro includes 24 apps plus the webapps link. AppBox includes: The apps included are: Battery Life, Clinometer, Currency Converter, Dashboard, Date Calculator, Days Until, Flashlight, Holidays, Loan Calculator, Period Calendar, Price Grab, Random Number Generator, Ruler, Sale Price, System Info, Tip Calculator, Translator, Unit Converter, Web Apps link. AppVault includes: iTunes Alarm Clock, Battery, Flashlight, Translator, Unit Converter, Bible, Tip Calculator, Level, Currency Converter, Days Until, Period Calc, Dice, Loan Calc, Price Compare, Holidays, Date Calc, Ruler, System Info, Sale Price, Parking Buddy, Coin Flip, iPlasma, Dashboard, Guitar Tools, and Webapps link.
As you can see there is much overlay in the features they provide, but isn’t that expected. If you couldn’t include apps that another collection has you could never compete. AppVault has intended to give better versions of everything, plus add some more.
What do you think? Should developers be able to complain about potential app copying, and have their only competition removed? Should Apple make these decisions without hearing from both sides? Apple attempts to act as having no position, but when they decide to remove competition they have obviously picked a side. Does this build a standard so other apps can complain, and get their competition removed?
There definitely is a similar interface, but arranging this many apps needs this type of interface. Also couldn’t theoretically any of the stand alone apps like tip calculators, translators, and battery info apps say that the apps in either app collection are copies of their functionalities. Therefore you could get each individual removed case by case from the collection, and then app collections would seem lackluster. I believe if you can’t compete, don’t cry to Apple.
You can find screenshots and descriptions of all the apps in AppVault Pro here, and AppBox Pro in the review above. At the time of removal both were priced at $0.99, and the only two app collections. If you want to bring AppVault Pro back there is a petition.
In final analysis AppVault Pro provides superior individual apps, and more of them to be able to set itself apart. My final review would have said it was a superior app to AppBox Pro. Sadly the consumer no longer has a choice in app collections. Tell us your thoughts of the situation.
I think its very unfortunate… luckily I already have AppVault Pro. But Apple’s got to make the iTunes store as much like a free-market system as possible, and part of that is allowing developers to do stuff others do better and let the users decide. Same goes for those beer apps. When developers compete, we win. When Apple steps in to protect from “unfair competition”, the only person that wins is the developer that got there first. You run into a kind-of mini-Atlas shrugged situation. That’s not the free market principles that keeps our apps so low in price. Apple needs to wise up and allow developers to one-up each other instead of protecting profits for some and hurting others.
I own a Samsung Moment and an Ipod Touch 3G, and i must say that this is another reason why I prefer the Android Market over apple’s app store. Apple is just a bunch of p@$ies who try to dictate everything. How much do you all want to bet that there was an under the table deal cut with apple to pull them. F@#king sham indeed.
P.S. i may prefer androids market over the app store but iphone/ipod touch’s games are far supperiour
(Please excuse any misspellings…was in a rush when typing this)
We are all for free competition in the market—naturally! However, I actually checked into this and let the truth be known that the initial launch of AppVault was 99% identical to AppBox. I’m talking colors, graphics, menus, you name it. I heard that even a bunch of the code was at some point directly copied…. Sure, now they have back-peddled and are attempting to introduce their own designs, but they chose the easy route to begin with. It was unfair, dishonest and misleading to customers–and very likely illegal. Shame on AppVault for trying to cut corners and then crying when the other company simply tries to protect their rights.
I see a link to AppVault’s side of the story; it would be great to get the other side as well.
Take care!
Sam
Um, don’t see how that’s possible and there’s plenty of info online proving otherwise. How exactly could they have copied proprietary code?
Sigh. Another person that doesn’t understand what copyright is.
Sure one app is inspired by the other but I see no evidence of copied code or indeed copied graphics so no copyright infringment has taken place.
If anything both apps have implemented a number of the sample apps that Apple themselves provide to all devs
this shoud be for courts to decide not Apple
Agreed.
The stand alone apps should complain that appbox stole their ideas!
actually, mark,
it appears *you’re* the one who doesn’t understand copyright. as someone who owns hundreds of them (and makes a living from them), and as someone who has won a legal judgement for copyright infringement (against my own property) i disagree with you completely.
an app doesn’t have to have identical code or identically copied graphics to be in violation of copyright. in fact appvault is clearly in violation of appbox’s coprights, having borrowed both the “spirit” and “idea” of appvault. the similarities are clear enough to be apparent to a child. this isn’t about the “free market” or any such concept. appbox created the idea first and copyrighted it. and for anyone else to do something *similar*, is in fact copyright infringement — whether you agree or not. i guarantee you that appvault would lose this battle in a court of law. GUARANTEED.
i have nothing personal against the developer of appvault, nor am i connected in the least with the developer of appbox. i simply read the article and the comments and was appalled that you have the nerve to accuse someone *else* of not understanding copyright, when in fact it’s *you* who do not understand it. your own words have proven it.
you cannot create a property that is this similar to another one. PERIOD. you have to be more original. it isn’t enough to say that appvault’s apps are of higher quality or that the graphics are different. THAT’S NOT THE POINT. the point is the very *idea* of the app — not the minutia. you, and more specifically the developer of appvault, would be advised to learn the law before you say (or create something) you might regret.
Well, that gets tricky because following that logic, there would only be one shoe store in the world, or one operating system that runs a graphical user interface…
Music tends to have the best analogies for copyright understanding. There are tons of songs that sound alike and “riff” off each other — 1,4,5 progressions — blues influenced itself and then spawned off into classic rock. Vanilla Ice basically ripped off the exact recording of the bass lick loop on his hit single from David Bowie and had to ultimately license it. So with music the most clear violations are when you actually take someone else’s recording as your own (like Vanilla Ice). Then “covers” — where a band plays the same chords and sings the same lyrics have to pay royalties to the songwriter when played on the radio. Weird Al does derived work — keeping the music, chords, song structure, and changing the lyrics and vocal performance. He is building on actual data created by another, and likely pays royalties to them.
I doubt AppVault stole original source code or links to decrypted AppBox binaries. So having all the code be original is a huge step towards this not being a copyright violation. The art is distinctive — like different icon “packs” at http://iconarchive.com. (You can’t copyright the concept of making a 20×20 icon image of a shoe). So what is the copyright violation here? A 4×5 grid of icons? Apple does that on the home screen! This is more of a case of someone playing the blues in the same key then stealing an actual recorded lick from another.
I anticipate this develops into a yet another embarrassing episode for Apple, where they ultimately agree they over stepped their bounds for a bit.
Agreed. There is no reason to have removed AppVault’s apps. There are many apps that are similar to other apps…this sets a disturbing precedent.
This totally pisses me off. I never knew about AppVault Pro and it appears to be a better product. Now I may never know. What I do know is AppBox Pro is being removed from my iPhone. I’ve used it only a couple times and the graphics totally turn me off. The developer of the app just sealed the deal for me.
I still say you should make an applist of “likely to be pulled apps”. Maybe a Get it While You Can list? This is really dumb…
I’d definitely like to see some kind of “get it while it’s hot” list put together. There’s so many great apps that pop into existence only to disappear before only a select few knew about them. Now, I know that AppAdvice wouldn’t be able to catch everything (that’d be a full time job), but it would still be a great list to have available nonetheless.
This is just utter garbage. There is no freakin’ way this is a copyright infringement issue. If that was the case, then there wouldn’t be hundreds of duplicate apps flooding the App Store on a daily basis…there would only be ONE of each type of app (which is just ridiculous). As is, these WERE the only two app collections type apps in the entire store, so I really can’t see where AppBox Pro comes off with their claim. And, for what its worth, Apple should have a least had the decency to inform C3 Software (AppVault Pro) of the situation before just pulling their app (which was clearly not breaking ANY App Store terms or polices).
Here is a link to the apps screens side-by-side.
http://img15.yfrog.com/img15/2711/infringementappvaultpro.jpg
Douglas here is no doubt someone that works for AppBox pro. Stay out of this forum! Not only did you get us pulled form the appstore, you’re stalking us on these forums. Stop being a jerk and try and make a better app. AppBox pro doesn’t deserve to be such a top seller!
What the heck is this? I finally got the lite version yesterday after regret, then I was ready to buy it. Then, outta nowhere, it’s gone! What is wrong with AppBox?
I would suggest that everyone who bought app vault write to the app box developers and state how useful they found app vault and because of their actions they will on principle never buy an application developed by AllAboutApps no matter how good it is.
If you don’t agree with this, hit ‘em where it hits. Don’t buy AppBox Pro and, if you did, delete it and ask Apple for a refund.
1. This is not a copyright case. You can’t copyright an idea only the implementation (and that means code). While the apps are similar they are not the same (at the code level).
2. It is understandable that Apple wants to stay out of copyright cases. But, in cases of one app developer complaining about another app, as in this case, then BOTH apps should be pulled from the store until the dispute is settled. That should eliminate weak or unfounded claims. I doubt AppBox would have complained to Apple if they risked killing their own app.
3. Apple should have notified BOTH companies of the impending removal.
4. Apple may be sidestepping copyright just to step into anti-competitive space. Out of the frying pan and into the fire as it were.
I have both apps and I eventually deleted appbox pro and use appvault pro instead.
Individual apps are better and the guitar tuner/chord app is fabulous.
Ok good for you app developers to know that from now on you cant have a 4×5 grid of different types of features.
Shame on you Appvault.
Instead of improving your app and competing you go this route.
Woops.
Should have been shame on Appbox….lol
My mistake
Hi guys,
Thanks for all the warm support. I am one of the co-creators of AppVault and it pains me very much that this has happened. I have spent the last 5 months of my life researching, programming, planning, and creating this App. I have sat at the computer for hundreds upon hundreds of hours coding and tuning this application. I sacrificed sleep, personal relationships (didn’t see my friends as much as I would have liked) and at times, my own happiness to create this labor of love. I also turned down lots of consulting work and lived off my savings — so you can even say I sacrificed a lot of money as well.
To have my app pulled before I could really recover any sizeable amount of money for my work is devastating. I worked very hard to ensure customers got maximum value (and that we would be a market leader) and to have all of my plans and hard work destroyed at the hands of what I consider to be very insidious competitors is unthinkably painful.
I am so empty and sad at this development. Never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined that AppVault would end up completely banned from the store at the mere flimsy accusation of a competitor. This is unspeakably bad for us, as you can imagine.
On the bright side I learned a LOT about myself and the capabilities I have (I really can make a hit!). Also, as valuable as that, I have made a few new friends (Jesse Kuhn, you rock!).
For those that want to help, we have composed a petition. Please sign it so we may change Apple’s draconian policies.
Petition to reverse Apple’s policies: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/925468611
FYI — Below is the exact text of the vague complaint against us, for all posterity:
The AppVault Pro V1.1 and AppVault Lite V1.1 infringed copyright of the AppBox Pro and AppBox Lite. The AppVault Pro/Lite application is available since Jan 4, 2010. They have just same graphics, layouts and features with different color for Ruler, Level, Battery, Tip Calc, Periodic Calc, and more in the AppBox Pro. Comparing the home screen of the AppVault Lite and the AppBox Lite, we know where their ideas comes from and how they made it. It is apparently infringing the copyright of the AppBox Pro and the AppBox Lite.
Here is a link to a screenshot of the devastating letter from Apple:
http://www.app-vault.com/complaint.png
Here is a link to a screenshot side-by-side.
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2711/infringementappvaultpro.jpg
And just who are you? No doubt an AppBox Pro crony? The only people who had seen that are you guys and us and maybe Apple.
So welcome. I hope you are content with yourselves. You totally are playing dirty. Why don’t you just make a better product rather than get your competitors pulled on false claims?
Seems like you are accusing anyone who points to the VERY obvious similarities (that is an understatement) between your two apps a crony. That makes you soooo credible.
I’m not using either of these apps but having developed consumer software for the last 30 years I can’t stand copycats such as yourself who have the nerve to whine about it when they get caught.
I don’t know whether what you did infringes copyright or not but even though I am not fully comfortable with the notion of Apple making such decisions without a form of checks and balances, in this particular instance I am very happy about the outcome.
You obviously have some development talent so now try to demonstrate some creativity as well instead.
Dear Sirs:
I have a really good idea for your application that will set you way apart from App Box Pro and blow them out of the water. Please contact me at my email for more info. I have been trying to locate someone from your company since I started using this app recently (Vault) to suggest this improvement and learned about the copyright bullshit. I believe you shouldn’t have been pulled. I have both applications as I purchased App Box Pro a while ago and found yours at the app store. For .99 I decided to try yours as well to see which user interface and applications I liked better. yours has the parking buddy which is one of the main reasons I decided it would be worth the .99. I am happy to say that I find your app easier to use, more pleasant to look at, and a lot more beneficial apps. I look forward to passing an idea for an update to you.
Sincerely,
Jodie Lynn
P.S. please excuse any spelling/grammatical errors, I am a mom of a two year old boy and 5 month old girl breastfeeder & that has caused me to take almost a half hour just to write this around chasing them.
Here is a link to the apps screens side-by-side.
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/2711/infringementappvaultpro.jpg
actually here is the REAL link of the app screens side by side:
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8122/comparisondw.jpg
Calin,
I feel your pain. But I can’t really find fault with the AppBox guys. Your app may handle better — I have neither so I can’t compare — but, and that’s assuming that the screenshots posted by the other (AppBox, as you intimate) guy(s), are factual, it looks like you tried to rip their UI.
I wish for your sake that you had spent more time staring at the wall, doodle pad in hand, than looking at AppBox screenshots. What were you thinking? Whether you have a legal case or not, ethically you have done wrong. You can’t copy stuff like that and expect the other guys to stand idly by.
My recommendation: pick up that pad, rethink your UI, and resubmit to Apple.
Alex
AppVault is sneaky..
Read on how they infringed on my copyrighted image, in the very blog post that cried foul play!
http://just2us.com/2010/01/hey-appvault-you-copied-my-broken-apple-graphics/
But I have to let you AppVault guys know, you do have my sympathy..
Allabout Apps actions are disgraceful. Hopefully Apple will realize the mistake it has committed and replace AppVault Pro, so that the consumers can again have the benifit of using a much better app instead of settling for the lackluster AppBox Pro.
Here’s the crazy thing. AppBox Pro isn’t even using their Trademark in the correct settings. Yes, they have a live Trademark that they are trying to protect. (Serial Number #77830535)
But that their trademark is for the following: “An electronic financial platform that accommodates multiple types of payment and debt transactions in an integrated mobile phone, PDA, and web based environment.”
Uhh… that doesn’t sound like ANYTHING either Appbox OR Appvault accomplish with their apps. So from this information (freely searchable from the uspto.gov it seems like the AppBox crew at AllAboutApps in Korea don’t have a leg to stand on.
The AppVault team should seek damages both from AllAboutApps but also from Apple for the improper removal.
Oh, and the AllAboutApps team DO NOT HAVE a registered trademark. Just search it out at cocatalog.loc.gov There is nothing on file with them.
The only thing they own is a trademark for a financial transactions software.
This is starting to look bad for Apple, hopefully someone can bring this to light.
Oh, and the AllAboutApps team DO NOT HAVE a registered copyright. Just search it out at cocatalog.loc.gov There is nothing on file with them.
The only thing they own is a trademark for a financial transactions software.
This is starting to look bad for Apple, hopefully someone can bring this to light.
I am totally pissed off. AppVault is such a superior product. I’m never syncing my iPhone again. Will syncing remove AppVault or does backup remove it? Either way, I am extremely unhappy about this and, until now, spend a lot of money in iTunes and the app store.
Comparing two binary modules the AppBox Pro and the AppVault Pro, I found there are 193 exactly same files exist. The AppVault Pro copied it’s data file from the AppBox Pro binary.
AppVault is obviously a copycat. Apple were right. Do your research, people. It’ll take less than 5 minutes for you to draw the same conclusions.
AppVault… C3 software… people like that make me sick. Good call, Apple.